User talk:Ikip

User is on Discord with the username Ikip.

Thanks for the help with locations!

Hey! Thanks for the warm words and help with the locations; you should add yourself to the PZwiki:Project Locations and Maps? You seem to have done a lot of great work in the past few days (or I can add you if you want to :P). I also think you're not on the Discord, so I'll write what I discussed with Vaileasys here on your talk page

One, I mentioned on my talk page, I guess you used the copy-pasted version 40, but I assume you play and obtained all the data from the latest, 41.78.16 version? If so, we should bump all those pages to that version eventually?
Secondly, we were wondering what to do with the video sections; should they be removed or kept, and if the latter in what form? I know Team Fortress 2 wiki has for example videos for each item, though there's a lot of work to have them all for each location.

Anyway, thanks again and keep the good work, it will all get ironed out eventually and we now have most of the locations thanks to you :) —Faalagorn ☎/✓ 01:10, 11 September 2023 (BST)

Vehicle manufacturers

I think that the vehicle manufacturers should be listed in infobox vehicles and not infobox businesses, since they don't have actual factories to go to. I also think it just relates to vehicles better. Thoughts? -ThinkDock1721

pawn shop to add to wiki?

below louisville central park and next to Deep Fried Heaven... Ikip (talk) 13:53, 22 October 2023 (BST)

Thank you!

For the warm welcome, nice to meet you! -Kate Aces ^{Leave me a note!} 13:22, 28 October 2023 (BST)

Doe Valley

Thanks for the kind welcome and words on my edits! I had a look at the formatting and will try to do that from now on. I had a look on the Doe Valley page and it looked pretty basic so i'll start working to get it up to a better standard with more detail and locations listed. Thanks again! -User talk:The (plastic) Cheeseman

Plan for navbox businesses

I came up with a plan in PZwiki talk:Project Locations and Maps. What do you think?ThinkDock1721 (talk)

"Barricaded city block" bug.

I'd like to elaborate on discord, if you would let me. Please add Diamond1 -UserName1234

What's Up?

Thanks for the warm welcome, nice to meet you! User:Valiko2023

Discord usernames

Regarding your edit, as far as Discord goes, the names are unique now, the display names are not, it's best explained in their blog post at https://discord.com/blog/usernames – not sure you can use the displayed username (which can vary per server) to find someone easily? I think the unique names are better to be used on userbox, in case someone want to add someone. For your case it's also not Ikip for the reason you took another username with that change :) —Faalagorn ☎/✓ 23:36, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

anything you want :) Ikip (talk) 19:19, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Appreciation

		The Most Excellent Chrome Microwave
		Thank you so much for your warm welcome and for the gift, it made me very happy. Allow me to present you with this token of my appreciation, the most excellent chrome microwave. -Kate Aces ^{Leave me a note!} 08:13, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

Why are you deleting the stores that a business is connect too in the same building?

Your additions to the businesses with multiple locations is welcome, and needed. I like how you are adding descriptions of where they chains are located.

RE: Food Market Conven-U-Mart and Family Fashion

You removed: ...in the same strip mall as Taco del Pancho, Liquorty-Split, and Gusto D'Italia.

Also:

...with ValuInsurance.

Also:

Next to Zlatko's.

Next to Burgers.

Next to Genteel-y Used. In the same building with Adult Education Center, Cafe (Muldraugh) and Liquorty-Split.

Same building as Keep Afloat Debt Consolidation, Emma's Eatery and Purrfect Barkner Pet Supplies.

I spent a lot of time adding these very specific locations. It is exhausting to have to have to re add what you continue to delete.

this is valuable information for a player and for editors. For example, sometimes I enter the wrong coordinates for the building, and these business names help me find where the building actually is located... I don't understand. Ikip (talk) 10:39, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

I assess the necessity of these on a case by case basis. Some of them I choose to leave in, but most of them I choose to remove. Oftentimes it's extra information that isn't necessary, and there are better ways to approximate locations than just saying what the location is next to. Just saying that a building is next to another building is not descriptive enough for a general location.

On top of that, when I do add a better description, the new description usually makes these descriptions unnecessary and redundant because of the more accurate one. For example, just saying a building is next to a burgers location does not tell the reader where in the town the building actually is. By adding that information, as well as approximation to major landmarks, the specific buildings the building is next to becomes irrelevant, since the reader can click on the coordinates and see those anyway. Plus, it adds length to the table sections, which then adjusts all section lengths and makes the table look very unwieldy and disproportionate.

You shouldn't be entering the wrong coordinates anyway. Coordinates are so so so important that you have to double-triple check everything.

I know you don't like deleting stuff, but having all this unnecessary info bloats the page and makes it look sloppy. Sometimes things get overwritten, especially with stub articles. I don't understand why it's such a big deal. It's just how a wiki operates.

ThinkDock1721 (talk)

The descriptions with this information is shorter then the images. There is no bloat. Adding a location in the town is helpful, but also stating where the location is, and what it is nearby, is also helpful. I will continue to revert your deletions, 90% of which locations that I found and added originally. Wasting my time. I respect other editors edits, and am a virulent inclusionists, and try to be inclusive and welcoming to all editors, especially new editors and people new to the game. It is very hurtful to me when I work on something a long time, and it is deleted. This is common on wikis, but it doesn't build communities, it stokes disillusionment and frustration. Ikip (talk) 15:45, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

That's why I always try to discuss with the admins or related editor before apply the change. He is the project leader and I think you should discuss this thought instead of adding things silently. I also think you two should come to a conclusion on this topic otherwise there will be a revision war. Maybe there is a better way to introduce the buildings nearby instead of simply adding a description. --Vibrance (talk) 15:59, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

I think it's because the descriptions are too long? I think Thinkdock explained it somewhere? —Faalagorn ☎/✓ 19:13, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

Thinkdoc's comments January 24 2024

@ThinkDock1721 joined the wiki in 2023, I joined in 2022.

He found this discord group and ask to be the head of the locations subgroup, before I got on discord months later.

Easy going Faal made him the leader with no discussion.

thinkdock1721 and I have a history.

I suggest adding one extra column. There is no extra complication.

Thinkdoc is confused about what kind of template I am talking about.

spiffo:

Here is an example, approximately 1 inch / 3 centimeters larger.

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Talk:Louisville

Look man, I know you were here before me and you edited wikis before, that's fantastic and I'm glad you're experienced. I'm not as versed in MediaWiki as you so maybe I'm seeing it wrong or not understanding something, but you don't have to be combative like that. There's no need for that.

On top of that, I've done more for locations and maps than you have by a wide margin. I've fully completed three towns with in depth information and am nearly halfway done on the fourth. You made a bunch of stub articles and then added almost no information to them later. It takes like 5 minutes to make a stub article. Not to mention you haven't even touched the project modding that YOU asked for, and neither have you improved the barnstars like Vibrance specifically asked you to.

You may have joined earlier, but I have done far more than you in Locations and Maps, so I don't want to hear you pull the seniority card.

I am not going to argue about this with thinkdoc. I am actually glad I publicly posted this question, as I wont be sinking more time on the wiki. The worst part of this wiki is having to police my hard work and contributions.

Less edits means less having to police my edits from being deleted by thinkdoc. I need to go to work 8:57 am here.

YOU are the one who initiated the arguments! All I've done is try to explain things to you and you get mad that we make modifications.

If you are leaving, don't let the door hit you

Ikip Your tone and comments are breaking the golden rule, Be Lovely. Disagree without aggression, assume good intent and miscommunication, not lying and argument. If you have an issue with another editor, and don't think it can be solved with a discussion, bring it to the admins, do not argue or insult. If you think your edits are being deleted, and so edit warred, flag it to an admin Kirrus (talk) 11:21, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

Ikip, I did warn you that you were breaking the golden rule -- Be Lovely. The discord moderators applied the timeout, for breaking that rule Kirrus (talk) 15:49, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

Ah, and you asked the moderators to block me?

"Be lovely" sounds strange in American English. Ikip (talk) 18:51, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

No, I flagged that an argument had occurred and to keep an eye on it, since I wasn't able to monitor. They decided a timeout was warranted. Kirrus (talk) 20:38, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. Ikip (talk) 20:45, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

The comments here are slightly chaotic, as it basically includes pastes from the Discord (which is on one hand sane for those that don't want to / can't use Discord for whatever reason. I had a busy week responding on Discord, so I can now only slowly get through the actual changes on wiki, so let me state some things for visibility

Being a project leader (or contributing to the wiki) is not about the amount of edits someone done, is not about seniority in editing wikis and is not about the join date either. These are totally arbitrary features that don't matter in the long run, while it may be nice for some personal goals or non-combative rivalry, using it as a way to combat for a spot is not something we want here.
ThinkDock proved to be good at coordination and outlining the work, so while you never clearly told it, I think he's fit for the position, even if he does less in your eyes (which is totally irrelevant, it's nice you both guys contribute, but leadership isn't about it).
The modding project was something I saw you took interest as well, that's why I asked you to take care of it, as it needs attention, project locations is one of the most developed one thanks to everyone's interest, which is nice as I have less time for that and would rather spend it on improving the wiki elsewhere, unfortunately resolving the conflicts takes time and energy.
You did get some timeous as it was our wiki admins and Discord moderators noticing it – it's not about being political, being done out of malice or assigned to any country or prejudices, it was about not wanting to disrupting each other works (our included, as I try to go through patrolling each non-bot non-admin change every day, which takes a lot chunk of time; minor changes are fine, I do them myself, but each change requires to go for the good health of wiki) – hopefully it'll get all solved in the end, so we can all go back to editing peacefully, especially as it prompted us to make more changes to the policies and such.

—Faalagorn ☎/✓ 16:21, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Edit warring

Ikip, your edit warring will not be tolerated. If someone reverts your edit, discuss the issue with them first, rather than immediately reverting their revert. We've given you countless chances with your edit warring in the past. It has to stop now. This is your final warning. re: https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Template:Infobox_business&oldid=208765 - Vaileasys (talk) Wiki Administrator 01:21, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

01:23, 26 January 2024 diff hist 0‎ m Template:Infobox business ‎ Protected "Template:Infobox business": Counter-productive edit warring: Excessive edits making design decisions that haven't been discussed. ([Edit=Allow only administrators] (indefinite) [Move=Allow only administrators] (indefinite))

01:18, 26 January 2024 diff hist +30‎ Template:Infobox business ‎ Undo revision 208765 by Ikip (talk) Tag: Undo

01:15, 26 January 2024 diff hist −30‎ Template:Infobox business ‎ Undo revision 208755 by Vaileasys (talk) will take screenshot Tag: Undo Ikip (talk) 01:24, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

01:10, 26 January 2024 diff hist +30‎ Template:Infobox business ‎ Revert: broke infobox layout Tag: Undo

On Wikipedia they say assume good faith. I removed the collapsible section of the template so the map section was uncollapsible. On 26 January 2024 you reverted stating: "broke infobox layout". The infobox was not broken, it was changed on purpose, as you know. 5 minutes later I wrote: "will take screenshot" in the edit summary. I then took a screenshot. Then 3 minutes later, I reverted myself.

I HAVE NEVER EDIT WARRED WITH ANYONE ON THIS SITE.

I was planning on working with you more, as we have had very little - practically no conversation.

Thank you for your diligence and hard work here. Ikip (talk) 01:34, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

You're making design decisions for templates that are on over 400 pages without any consultation, which result in the layout and functionality of the template to not work as it was originally intended. Then, when they get reverted, you've been reverting them back to your edit instantly. You've done this twice to me now in as many days, and several other times to others. If you think they were a good change, discuss why they were reverted so we can come to a decision, rather than instantly reverting. - Vaileasys (talk) Wiki Administrator 01:49, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

On discord: I wanted to discuss the possible uncollapsing of the map section with you, what do you think? (showed a picture of the suggestion and the edit above)

response:

Vaileasys — Today at 6:19 AM

This is best discussed with others too. The map was collapsed intentionally, as it made the page too long. It's not an important detail that needs to be visible. It can be expanded easily. Note there is a new version of the businesses infobox in the sandbox. We had decided to remove the map as we have a link to the interactive map. Also, the map section was originally intended to be a zoomed in map of that business and surrounding buildings. See https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Sunstar_Motel

Ok thank you for taking the time to write this! Ikip (talk) 03:38, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Time out

As you've shown that you can't work collaboratively on this wiki and ignore dispute resolutions that don't align with your ideals, you've been timed out for 24 hours [1] and discord links ([2], ). We've included on the wiki rules what it means to be a wiki, and what is expected from its contributors, I expect that you read them before making any further edits after your time out expires. Reach out to Faalagorn or myself if you need any assistance. - Vaileasys (talk) Wiki Administrator 05:18, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

DELETION POLICY

RE: https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Louisville_hole_in_fence&action=history

I do not have the time, resources nor health to follow the recriminations, blatant lie, accusations, hurt feelings, misunderstandings, private messaging, and name calling on discord.

On Wikipedia there is AFD - Articles for discussion ON wikipedia. I will not boldy create this, because it will be probably be deleted by 3 of the administrators.

This will come up again, and I am sure has come up in the past. What is the policy on this? Let's discuss it here, not on discord. I simply do not have the time, resources nor health, like the bureaucrat and indie employee to monitor every edit and every word spoken on discord.

Again, a policy can be created for deletion of articles. I can spearhead this initiative. Ikip (talk) 11:06, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

See talk page, of the project page. https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki_talk:Project_Locations_and_Maps Ikip (talk) 11:09, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

Comments on Discord

Faalagorn — 02/08/2024 10:34 AM I didn't have time to go through the changes yesteday, so I think i'll go through them now. Seems Ikip wasn't logged on Discord and just doing wiki edits though?

BTW, related, what's the rule of adding business now? May be worth outlining on wiki page, I think it's currently if it's a "business" (business being any type of building other than singular house) building or things like gated community, it warands being added, named or not? (though due to isometric nature of game and lack of other identification factors other than loot definitions, we may sadly get lot of unnamed business 😦

What about houses that are often used as a safehouse or even spawn points? Such as the isolated house in Muludragh or the farm north of it? Will they warrant an article page? Faalagorn — 02/05/2024 3:04 AM I am already happy at least Ikip cleaned up the v1 versions of them, though I'll have to go back and update the links because they were substituted 😄 Faalagorn — 01/28/2024 6:32 AM I was just going through the changes today, it seems Ikip improved it to the point we might as well keep it? I don't think it hurts too much? Vaileasys — 01/26/2024 6:30 AM it's sorted. Ikip posted on mine https://pzwiki.net/wiki/User_talk:Vaileasys#Edit_warring User talk:Vaileasys Calvy — 01/26/2024 4:40 AM The article was slated for rework in the locations project so i reworked it. What ikip did was revert the original text that i already reworked into the rest of the article. Meaning it now has all the old information and repeats itself multiple times. While also re-adding information that was unverified or fluff, which was the whole reason the article needed a rework Dairy Free Lethal Gestalt Tartan — 01/26/2024 3:51 AM I don't wanna get invovled in this, incase I misread it, I think Ikip is the one that added the more info? It was just that we think it shouldn't be called the regional HQ of Knox Country ThinkDock1721 — 01/25/2024 10:08 AM Imo I actually think what ikip did for the triangle was a pretty effective solution. Simple, to the point, and effective.

A show/hide could accomplish the same function though and look a lot better, so I guess it's about simplicity vs aesthetics at that point.

I think both are valid solutions to the triangle issue.

Thoughts @Vaileasys @Calvy @Dairy Free Lethal Gestalt Tartan @Faalagorn? ThinkDock1721 — 01/25/2024 10:03 AM I don't particularly care for the VDE but I do agree that someone who doesn't know what they're doing could potentially come along and screw up the template.

On top of that, I think that the triangle isn't very obvious and we do need to point to it in some way, whether it's a show/hide or something like what ikip originally did to bring visibility to it ikip — 01/24/2024 4:21 PM https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ikip&oldid=207285&diff=cur

Ikip Your tone and comments are breaking the golden rule, Be Lovely. Disagree without aggression, assume good intent and miscommunication, not lying and argument. If you have an issue with another editor, and don't think it can be solved with a discussion, bring it to the admins, do not argue or insult. If you think your edits are being deleted, and so edit warred, flag it to an admin Kirrus (talk) 11:21, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

I just saw this now. Index.php ikip — 01/24/2024 4:16 PM To @ThinkDock1721 : Vibrance wrote: You remind me, one week later and @ikip didn't improved them a little, so as I said before, those barnstars will be removed from this wiki. Faalagorn — 01/24/2024 2:50 PM pohly and technolyx, they only made it because ikip asked them to anyway 😛 ThinkDock1721 — 01/21/2024 5:22 PM That was mostly Ikip's work. There used to be like 8 million of em and then he went crazy and made a bunch of stubs Faalagorn — 12/14/2023 2:44 PM The guide to upload the files was loosely coined by Ikip with the help of poly, but it needs clup before putting into page, I may get into it eventually, though no ETA 😛 https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Talk:Modding#how_to_unpack_.pack_files @Menp23 Talk:Modding Faalagorn — 12/09/2023 6:23 AM Okay, I slowly caught up with the recent changes; yours were surprisingly fast compared to Ikip's. 😛

I'll maybe take another look at the rest tomorrow, I still have some changes I need to decide what to do, but gotta sleep for now 😴 – though not sure if I'll be terribly active this weekend ikip — 12/03/2023 11:26 PM

spiffo:

Ikip, as always, has absolutely knocked it out of the park this month! Not only did he add adverts to the articles of nearly every company advertised, he also did a great job in starting to categorize the navbox businesses template to make it easier to read! Great job! While the template isn’t in its final form and there are likely some additional changes and cleanups on the way later down the line, it's an absolutely fantastic start and will certainly work for now. Great work!

Thanks @ThinkDock1721 ThinkDock1721 — 11/26/2023 9:00 PM But I also have navbox businesses to worry about. It's in a decent state right now though, I don't think it requires any urgent work. Ikip has mostly taken care of it. (Thanks btw!)

I do think there's some cleanups we could do, but in its current state it works just fine. Faalagorn — 11/26/2023 1:56 AM I think you also confused user page with the talk page on few occasions Ikip, e.g. https://pzwiki.net/wiki/User:Danash 😛 User:Danash ikip — 11/22/2023 11:09 AM Teromax34 — Yesterday at 3:47 PM hi ikip, it's me, tero from the wiki first of all thank you for the nice comments, but i have a technical question how do you use the talk page? like what do i have to do in order to have that weird date format at the end?

Image

also thanks for the little badge

ikip — Today at 11:09 AM

Ikip (talk) 16:13, 10 February 2024 (UTC) Faalagorn — 11/21/2023 5:25 PM You can go ahead and edit them if you want to; that's something I wanted to clean up a little more, but mostly dragged away as more important stuff went 😛

I saw Ikip added https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Barnstars - if they are gonna stay, they will require cleanups surely, but we had a similar concept by infoboxes done by Connal, but it never found use, so I deleted it. Could undelete if you guys think it's worth it, but may be extra mainteneance https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Template:User_Award https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Template:User_Award/FrontPageDesigner https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Template:User_Award/Translator

I think I discussed the removal back there with @Vaileasys in private before as I can't find it on the chat here 🤔 Category:Barnstars ikip — 11/21/2023 1:23 AM QUOTE FROM THIS DISCUSSION BOARD:

UNTRUE ThinkDock1721 — 10/06/2023 9:50 PM

Why not have them included in both? I mean, they are related to vehicles and are technically businesses as well.

I've also discussed with Ikip about splitting up infobox businesses by indivual towns, creating categories for each in place of the "retail and stores" etc etc. That we currently have. We seem to both like the idea. Thoughts? ThinkDock1721 — 11/21/2023 1:11 AM Ikip, I'm not going to fight with you here. Let's have a civil discussion. If you're going to be rude ill have a mod deal with this.

I did not lie knowingly. I was working with the information I had at the time. I even apologized for the misunderstanding. Things happen. I apologize.

Regarding navbox businesses, I haven't ignored anything and pressed on. Notice how I didn't start categorizing anything. It's only been you so far. All I did was make a plan and ask for thoughts and you went on a massive tirade. I wanted to move it to a place that wasn't cluttered with other stuff.

If I "ignored your advice", I wouldn't have even added that to the talk page. I wouldve just started categorizing stuff. I haven't categorized one thing.

If you have a disagreement with me on something I'm happy to talk. You didn't have to "bend over backwards" at all. In fact, when you first made the multi location template, you named it incorrectly and we agreed on a name. What else have you "bent over backwards" for? ikip — 11/21/2023 1:03 AM 1. Can we install: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:MsUpload Which will allow certain trusted editors to bulk upload images? And have a second group created, trusted people who are not necessarily admins, but can use this extension. I have uploaded over 1,000 images in the past eleven months, and it is a pain: https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&target=Ikip&namespace=6&tagfilter=&start=&end=&offset=&limit=1000 2. I am so god damn tired of the captcha. I have spent literally hours clicking through captca images, having to resort to using a VPN because I get blocked. Is there anyway around it for admins, etc.? Anyone know mediawiki better then me? Extension:MsUpload The MsUpload extension allows users to upload multiple files by drag & drop in the standard MediaWiki edit page.

FeaturesEasily upload one or multiple files simultaneously. File upload integrated in the edit page. Upload via drag and drop (if HTML5 is available in browser). Add the file into the edit page as a link. Add the files into the edit ... Extension:MsUpload Index.php Faalagorn — 11/19/2023 11:02 PM If it helps, you can take a look at https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:ActiveUsers to quickly find what folks did. I keep a track too, so far I have:: Project Locations https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:Contributions/The_(plastic)_Cheeseman https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:Contributions/Stock https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:Contributions/Slightsmile https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:Contributions/Ikip https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:Contributions/ThinkDock1721 Special:ActiveUsers The (plastic) Cheeseman Stock Slightsmile Ikip ikip — 11/19/2023 1:40 AM

spiffo: ⁉️

QUESTION ON MOD SUPPORT Link to question: ⁠mod_support⁠ how do i check in game files, where items are located?

I have seen comments on youtube describing what is supposed to be in a location, but isnt.

Where do i find the cordinates of items in game files? Which game file?

PLEASE USE THE @ikip to respond please help. @Appri @Deoxys_0 @BowlOfOodaLoops @Appri

spiffo: :spiffo: :spiffo:

Clarias — 11/18/2023 11:11 PM I’m sorry- from the response I got here when I asked from ikip I thought that was what I was supposed to do to get a table that was properly formatted. I won’t do that again in the future. Thank you for your help fixing this, I’m sorry to have given you unnecessary extra work. I’m glad the template works and the issue was just another “staring at the ketchup bottle asking where the ketchup is”.

ThinkDock1721 — 01/26/2024 5:06 AM

This is very childish.

Vaileasys — 01/26/2024 6:26 AM I know you've been frustrated, but calling someone a jerk doesn't help your case. Notify a mod or admin if you have a problem.

ThinkDock1721 — 01/26/2024 6:23 AM Just because you solved this one situation peacefully doesn't mean you haven't been a complete jerk and uncivil to me for minor details that I've tried to explain to you only for you to get mad.