Talk:Recipe ingredients
Section 1 Changes Still to Be Made
There are section-specific edit notes hidden in the page in each sub-section. Aside from those changes...
- Section notes the require testing will wait until build 28
- Parts of the Soup/Stew recipe sub-section should move to the intro sub-section, as they probably apply to all recipes
- This will need confirmation from testing any changes to the game mechanics; waiting on build 28.
- See hidden comments on that section if you forget what pieces need testing/moving
- On second thought, how much of this & the intro will be made redundant by the Cooking Guide? Hmm...
- Cooking Guide - I've been looking at the Farming and its relationship to the Farming page, which is about the skill. The same relationship could exist for the Cooking skill page and the Cooking. The major problem is the language ("Cooking" implies something is cooked, while the cooking skill includes all food actions more generally. :-\)
- Also what about stale ingredient #'s in Section 2?
- Pro: Stale ingredients added to recipes are an excellent use and a major advantage to the recipes. Also, stale changes a food's value in a set and negative way, unlike player skill or cooking the food, respectively.
- Con: The chart lists the maximum possible, not specific values, because those can change from use (f.e. left-over Broccoli). Also a fair amount of ingredients stale values still fall above the recipe maximum listed already. Also, pro#1 mechanic might not exist in future versions.
- I'll spend some time testing this and probing for any changes in b28. But for now the stronger argument is not to add it.
Should bread slices be included as a recipe item (since they are a food item, even though they are only used as a starter item (like a Pot of Water)?- No. Since it can't be used as an ingredient it's more closely related to a Pot of Water. It gets mentioned as a starter item, which is enough for the wiki user to understand that they need one.
- =*=* Casual PZ player here - not sure how to edit wiki so I am leaving a comment here. Cake batter requires a fork/spoon/spatula as well, just like pie dough. Could someone please add that in? Thank you *=*=*
Hey Bowlympicshero, are you working with build 28 code maybe? Hemilash (talk) 20:03, 20 August 2014 (BST)
Yes. I've been working with IWBUMS. Build 28 should be out proper soon. I prefer to be ahead of the curve. Once IWBUMS 29 is out we should make a more concerted effort to denote beta features, but as of right now, the wiki is so outdated that almost all the info is either missing or has changed. I've even been adding items and features that aren't even in build 28 to the wiki.
Such as 
. There is no code for pumpkins, but the pumpkin pie already has coding. There are also rain boots and an umbrella in the code, but they have no stat values assigned yet so I'm leaving it out. If you have suggestions on how to approach this issue, I'm all ears. --Bowlympicshero (talk) 21:50, 20 August 2014 (BST)
That sounds good. And explains why our numbers weren't matching. We'll go with yours.
I think it's a good priority to get as much of the game into the wiki as possible so you are definitely doing the right thing. Since it's going to be in alpha/beta until 2015, there will be plenty of changes and tweaks anyway. As long as we have the overall framework in place, especially major pages (Survival Guide, Items, Crafting, etc.), it will be fine, even if that means blank items and pages. It's a tough balance: we want to update pages, but run the risk of having to re-update as changes happen. So I think our aim--and by "our" I mean the entire wiki community's--should be to get the wiki up to build 28, because it's going to drop soon and because so many existing pages are very old. Hmm. Still not sure if I properly responded to your original point. I guess the short answer is, if you're asking if I think empty items such as umbrellas should be added then yes I do. Even if only as a text list of "Items Not Yet Implemented". That way at least you or I have a reminder to come back to it in the future, or someone else once contribution picks back up. Hemilash (talk) 21:00, 21 August 2014 (BST)
Organization of Info
Two types of tables:
- Section 1: Recipe Ingredients
- Answers the question "What can I put in ______?"
- Section 2: Food-in-Recipe Values
- Answers the question "What can I make if I have ______?"
Raw & Cooked Meats
I ended up omitting cooked versions of ingredients from recipes that can take the raw version. Since the game & wiki consider cooked versions of an item to be the same item (no page for cooked steak f.e.), I'm going to leave it like this for now. But in the future if it becomes awkward or doesn't make sense it should be changed. It's been noted that cooked versions can be used in lieu of raw in the general info section at the top of the Recipe Ingredients page.
Hemilash (talk) 20:03, 20 August 2014 (BST)
NOTE: Game does not treat cooked, burnt, or rotten food as separate items. Cooked, burnt, and rotten are merely modifiers to the base raw item. Raw and Cooked meat tables can be condensed into 1 table. Use either bg colors or font colors to denote item MUST be cooked.
--Bowlympicshero (talk) 19:00, 18 August 2014 (BST)
This change has been adopted for the Food-in-Recipe tables section. Background color is used to show which items can only be used when cooked (though a secondary & subtle method might be added for colorblind users).
For the Recipe Ingredients section...yeah, we'll probably just go with the same format actually, just for visual continuity. I'll see how it looks. Hemilash (talk) 16:50, 19 August 2014 (BST)
Try using a superscript C(C) or other symbol to help colorblind users. --Bowlympicshero (talk) 18:52, 19 August 2014 (BST)
This is kinda what I have in mind to replace the spreadsheet, but I just realized it's going to take a while to go back and get all the numbers:
Ripped values from item scripts. --Bowlympicshero (talk) 01:32, 19 August 2014 (BST)
Charts taken out of draft and moved to Recipe ingredients page. Hemilash (talk) 17:06, 19 August 2014 (BST)
Suggested layout/table changes
Perhaps this formatting would look better on the recipe page.
Soup & Stew Ingredients
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| Cooking Pot |
Soup or Stew is crafted by right-clicking on a Cooking Pot. It should be cooked to gain its full hunger reduction (or to cook raw ingredients). Soup/Stew can accept a maximum of 6 ingredients, as well as spices. A Pot of Soup or Stew is heavy, but can be separated into bowls (x2 or x4). Soup ingredients cannot be used with the Pot of Soup crafted from Canned Vegetable Soup.
Ingredients that have gone stale can still be used in soups and stews. Their hunger reduction will be added to the soup, while the boredom and unhappiness penalties will not. This is a good way to extend the life of your perishable foods, and is one of the best uses of soups and stews.
Ingredients that have gone rotten can be used by players with cooking skill of 4 or 5. This will add a small amount of the hunger reduction but will not create rotten soup or stew; an expert chef can trim the rotten pieces off, saving any good parts.
Skill level 4 allows 5% of the ingredient to be saved. Skill level 5 allows 10% of the ingredient to be saved.
Soup Ingredients:
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Stew Ingredients:
| Raw Meats | 
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| Cooked Meats | 
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- Soup vs Stew:
- Bacon, Bacon Rashers, Steak, Meat Patty, and Beef Jerky can be used in stew, but not in soup. Bell Pepper, Cheese and Dry Ramen Noodles can be used in soup, but not in stew. Otherwise, every ingredient behaves the same in both soup and stew.
- Soup takes 50 minutes to cook, and burns in 100 minutes.
- Stew takes 70 minutes to cook, and burns in 140 minutes.
Yeah, I like this a lot. I was worried it wouldn't allow for the cooked/uncooked color scheme, but I tried bg colors on the current old format and it looks terrible with the food pictures. So the two sections will just have to have different formats for now. Hemilash (talk) 17:17, 20 August 2014 (BST)
Try using border colors instead of background colors. style="border:5px solid #EDA5A5" This should prevent ugliness with the crappy .pngs I uploaded. Once the wiki is more or less caught up I will focus on updating icons to have proper resolution and transparency. I mainly wanted to establish a naming convention for icons so it's easier to catalog items. i.e.: MEATChicken/TOOLHammer/UTENSILBowl etc.
This is what it should look like.
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Colors, image size, and font size are all subject to tweaking, but this is a proof of concept. --Bowlympicshero (talk) 22:40, 20 August 2014 (BST)
Cool. I'm not very adept with tables, so I'm learning a ton from this and your work on the Items page. Also, I like this a lot. I can probably do at least the borders for Section 1, and I'll experiment with the Item/Name/Hunger mix. It'll probably have to wait until the weekend though; real life getting in the way. Hemilash (talk) 21:09, 21 August 2014 (BST)
Honestly I'm learning all this stuff on the fly and retro fitting it into sections I've already done. So It's a learning process for me. My contributions have been a little lax the past few days because of work and just needing some time off to recharge and reformulate some ideas. Just approach it at your own pace. I'm currently drafting a main page change so newcomers aren't so lost. I'm also working on compiling and clarifying item codes and reproducing icons in native format so I don't think this week will be big for additions on my end, but more 'house cleaning' if you will. --Bowlympicshero (talk) 21:20, 21 August 2014 (BST)